SUMO community discussions

1. Hi, I am a locale leader of SUMO Japanese community. I have contributed to the Support over 20 years, before the beginning of support.mozilla.org.

   Today, November 4, we decided to end our SUMO Japanese community.

   In October 22, the sumobot was introduced to Japanese KB articles. I cannot accept its behavior and no words.

   • It doesn’t follow our translation guidelines.
   • It doesn’t respect current localization for Japanese users, so they were lost.
   • It approves its direct English MT immediately for All archived KB articles.
   • It approves only in 72 hours after its updates, so we lost our work to train new contributors.
   • It has been working now without our acceptance, without controls, without communications.
   • Over 300 Knowledge Base articles are overridden by sumobot.

   They are all happened on the product server, not on staging server. I understand that this is mass destruction of our work and explicit violation to the Mozilla mission, allowed officially.

   Therefore, I (marsf) declare:

   • I quit to contribute to support.mozilla.org.
   • I prohibit to use all my translation as learning data for SUMO bot and AIs.
   • I request to remove all my translation from learned data of SUMO AIs.

   However, individual Japanese contributors may want to work in their responsibility. It is their choice, we don’t care nor support.

   Bye.

   Hi, I am a locale leader of SUMO Japanese community. I have contributed to the Support over 20 years, before the beginning of support.mozilla.org.

   Today, November 4, we decided to end our SUMO Japanese community.

   In October 22, the sumobot was introduced to Japanese KB articles. I cannot accept its behavior and no words.
   * It doesn’t follow our translation guidelines.
   * It doesn’t respect current localization for Japanese users, so they were lost.
   * It approves its direct English MT immediately for All archived KB articles.
   * It approves only in 72 hours after its updates, so we lost our work to train new contributors.
   * It has been working now without our acceptance, without controls, without communications.
   * Over 300 Knowledge Base articles are overridden by sumobot.

   They are all happened on the product server, not on staging server. I understand that this is mass destruction of our work and explicit violation to the Mozilla mission, allowed officially.

   Therefore, I (marsf) declare:
   * I quit to contribute to support.mozilla.org.
   * I prohibit to use all my translation as learning data for SUMO bot and AIs.
   * I request to remove all my translation from learned data of SUMO AIs.

   However, individual Japanese contributors may want to work in their responsibility. It is their choice, we don’t care nor support.

   Bye.

2. “Gokurosama deshita” (ご苦労様でした)

   “Gokurosama deshita” (ご苦労様でした)

3. Hi Marsf,

   I’m sorry for how you and the Japanese community feel about the MT workflow that we just recently introduced. Would you be interested to hop on a call with us to talk about this further? We want to make sure we trully understand what you’re struggling with.

   My timezone is UTC+7, so it should be easier for us to set up time. Let me know how that sound!

   Hi Marsf,

   I’m sorry for how you and the Japanese community feel about the MT workflow that we just recently introduced. Would you be interested to hop on a call with us to talk about this further? We want to make sure we trully understand what you’re struggling with.

   My timezone is UTC+7, so it should be easier for us to set up time. Let me know how that sound!

4. Hi marsf, I’m so sorry to read your message. Even though we haven’t seen each other for a while, I still have fond memories of you (we last met at All Hands in Orlando… in 2018).
   I completely understand your frustration after the introduction of SumoBot. We Italians, along with the Spanish, were the first to experiment with automatic translation/updates via SumoBot (https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/forums/contributors/717387?last=89505), and I’ve already expressed some concerns. I hope that, after talking with Kiki and the staff, you’ll change your mind about ceasing your localization contributions.

   marsf said

   • It doesn’t follow our translation guidelines.

   Fortunately, for the Italian localization, our guidelines are being respected.

   • It approves its direct English MT immediately for All archived KB articles.
   • It approves only in 72 hours after its updates, so we lost our work to train new contributors.
   • It has been working now without our acceptance, without controls, without communications.

   These are also in my opinion the sore points, especially the fact that SumoBot updates or translates (when there’s a new article) immediately, which hinders the training of new contributors because they end up doing “proofreading” since SumoBot immediately takes over…
   For me, as a locale leader, it’s not easy to help a new contributor understand how the localization process works, the syntax of the Sumo wiki, if they have to view a “diff” that SumoBot has already automatically proposed (Often retranslating parts of the article that aren’t subject to changes…).

   I believe the various locales should be able to decide whether or not to use machine translations, especially if we want to involve new contributors. In the last few months, I’ve trained two new contributors, but since the introduction of machine translation and on-the-fly translation, they’ve lost interest, and I spend my time alone (As always) fixing SumoBot’s intrusiveness.

   Hugs,
   Michele

   Hi marsf, I’m so sorry to read your message. Even though we haven’t seen each other for a while, I still have fond memories of you (we last met at All Hands in Orlando… in 2018).
   I completely understand your frustration after the introduction of SumoBot. We Italians, along with the Spanish, were the first to experiment with automatic translation/updates via SumoBot (https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/forums/contributors/717387?last=89505), and I’ve already expressed some concerns. I hope that, after talking with Kiki and the staff, you’ll change your mind about ceasing your localization contributions.

   ”marsf [[#post-89603|said]]”

   • It doesn’t follow our translation guidelines.

   Fortunately, for the Italian localization, our guidelines are being respected.

   • It approves its direct English MT immediately for All archived KB articles.
   • It approves only in 72 hours after its updates, so we lost our work to train new contributors.
   • It has been working now without our acceptance, without controls, without communications.

   These are also in my opinion the sore points, especially the fact that SumoBot updates or translates (when there’s a new article) immediately, which hinders the training of new contributors because they end up doing “proofreading” since SumoBot immediately takes over…
   For me, as a locale leader, it’s not easy to help a new contributor understand how the localization process works, the syntax of the Sumo wiki, if they have to view a “diff” that SumoBot has already automatically proposed (Often retranslating parts of the article that aren’t subject to changes…).

   I believe the various locales should be able to decide whether or not to use machine translations, especially if we want to involve new contributors. In the last few months, I’ve trained two new contributors, but since the introduction of machine translation and on-the-fly translation, they’ve lost interest, and I spend my time alone (As always) fixing SumoBot’s intrusiveness.

   Hugs,
   Michele

5. Michele Rodaro said

   Fortunately, for the Italian localization, our guidelines are being respected.

   I wonder if what Marsf referring to was related to the the bug that we recently reported. I have a feeling the bug may have caused the impression that the MT doesn’t respect prior translation and guidelines even though it’s actually a bug.

   These are also in my opinion the sore points, especially the fact that SumoBot updates or translates (when there’s a new article) immediately, which hinders the training of new contributors because they end up doing “proofreading” since SumoBot immediately takes over…
   For me, as a locale leader, it’s not easy to help a new contributor understand how the localization process works, the syntax of the Sumo wiki, if they have to view a “diff” that SumoBot has already automatically proposed (Often retranslating parts of the article that aren’t subject to changes…).

   Michele, you and I talked about the struggle of getting new contributors on board. We’ve been experimenting with training for the Forum Moderators and we’ve been getting great feedback from the participants so far. Do you think a training or video tutorials would help with this?

   I believe the various locales should be able to decide whether or not to use machine translations, especially if we want to involve new contributors. In the last few months, I’ve trained two new contributors, but since the introduction of machine translation and on-the-fly translation, they’ve lost interest, and I spend my time alone (As always) fixing SumoBot’s intrusiveness.

   Can you tell me more about SUMObot intrusiveness that you’ve experienced?

   ”Michele Rodaro [[#post-89608|said]]”

   Fortunately, for the Italian localization, our guidelines are being respected.

   I wonder if what Marsf referring to was related to the [https://github.com/mozilla/sumo/issues/2605 the bug] that we recently reported. I have a feeling the bug may have caused the impression that the MT doesn’t respect prior translation and guidelines even though it’s actually a bug.

   These are also in my opinion the sore points, especially the fact that SumoBot updates or translates (when there’s a new article) immediately, which hinders the training of new contributors because they end up doing “proofreading” since SumoBot immediately takes over…
   For me, as a locale leader, it’s not easy to help a new contributor understand how the localization process works, the syntax of the Sumo wiki, if they have to view a “diff” that SumoBot has already automatically proposed (Often retranslating parts of the article that aren’t subject to changes…).

   Michele, you and I talked about the struggle of getting new contributors on board. We’ve been experimenting with training for the Forum Moderators and we’ve been getting great feedback from the participants so far. Do you think a training or video tutorials would help with this?

   I believe the various locales should be able to decide whether or not to use machine translations, especially if we want to involve new contributors. In the last few months, I’ve trained two new contributors, but since the introduction of machine translation and on-the-fly translation, they’ve lost interest, and I spend my time alone (As always) fixing SumoBot’s intrusiveness.

   Can you tell me more about SUMObot intrusiveness that you’ve experienced?

6. Training for Forum moderators when elevating existing forum contributors is a different thing to onboarding new contributors to the forum or (in respect of the concerns raised here) L10n.

   Training for Forum moderators when elevating existing forum contributors is a different thing to onboarding new contributors to the forum or (in respect of the concerns raised here) L10n.