If John Malkovich is in a movie, he’s stealing the show. From the high-pitched Russian mobster (Rounders) and sadistic killer (Con Air) to the charismatic seducer (Dangerous Liaisons) and the satirical version of himself (Being John Malkovich), Malkovich portraying an eccentric character is the norm, not the exception. Because of his mysterious demeanor and distinct voice, who better to play a legendary pop star than Malkovich?

In Mark Anthony Green’s Opus, a young writer named Ariel Ecton (Ayo Edebiri) and her journey to the compound of the iconic Alfred Moretti (Malkovich), the world’s most famous pop star, who is preparing to release his first album in 30 years. Surrounded by several journalists and Moretti’s followers, Ariel quickly learns about the dark side of celebrity and tribalism in this psychological horror.

Malkovich and Green spoke to Digital Trends about the art of storytelling and how to create a pop star out of thin air.

This interview has been edited for length and clarity.

Digital Trends: I wanted to start with a question for both of you about storytelling because I feel like there’s this debate on who is a storyteller. Can actors be storytellers? I watched a recent interview with Kieran Culkin and Coleman Domingo, and they said they weren’t necessarily storytellers. They were servants who were in service to the story. That was their job. At the end of the day, it wasn’t their script. Mark Anthony, I’ll start with you. How do you see yourself? Do you see yourself as a storyteller because you wrote and directed this script?

Mark Anthony Green: Yeah, I think most people would probably agree — Writer-director, storyteller, especially if it’s an original story. The reason I approach it differently, I won’t say I disagree with … I’ll never say I disagree with Coleman Domingo because I’m such a fan. The reason I kind of approach it differently, probably the best part of the job, is working with John and Ayo and Murray [Bartlett] and Juliette [Lewis] and Tony [Hale]. Working together to tell the story.

There’s never a moment where I feel like I’m the only one in charge or tasked with the story. I thoroughly expect Shirley Kurata, our costume designer, to be telling that story, and you better believe I expected John’s ass there on time to tell that story, and he was. He [John] would send ideas, even improvise lines. There are some moments in Opus when John improvises lines and tells the story. I don’t think that’s how it works. I think that those guys [Colman and Kieran] were being humble, and I appreciate that.

You think you know what the film is, and then when you’re editing, you’re sitting there and you’re like, “Oh, John was doing something that emotionally has changed this. I wanna follow that.” That’s more interesting than the thing that’s on the page, and I’m gonna follow that. So, I think actors are storytellers. I think all filmmakers are storytellers, and in the most healthy collaboration, we all feel that burden and take that on together.

John, what about you as an actor? How do you feel as a storyteller?

John Malkovich: I’ve always said that, in my opinion, an actor in a movie is different than, say, an actor in a play for a whole lot of reasons. In a movie, you’re a figure in someone else’s dream. Your job is to ascertain what that dream is. How is it most clearly, evocatively, and compellingly told that you can think of, you can suggest, or attempt. I would agree with Mark Anthony that everything has to be in the service of that story and to that story.

Some actors — I don’t think it’s a majority or anything at all — may think it’s not someone else’s dream; it’s theirs. But in fact, it is someone else’s dream. There’s a reason that the director is the “Dreamer in Chief.” As in a dream, it doesn’t mean that they’re the only ones who are forced to articulate it constantly.

I would say all directors would prefer, in a way, to have help doing that. [laughs] To have someone say, “Yeah, but will this communicate what it is you’d really like to communicate?” To me, that’s what the job is and the fun and joy of the job.

“Dreamer in Chief.” That’s a great line. Obviously, music plays a huge role in this movie. I mean, you’re working with greats like Nile Rogers and The-Dream. You talked about finding the soul of Moretti. Mark Anthony, take me through those sessions. You’re creating this artist and their legendary songs out of thin air. How did you find the soul of Moretti?

Green: Well, the soul of Moretti, I believe, was John’s. I think John was responsible for the soul [of Moretti]. I believe my job was to make sure that he had everything he needed and that there were no questions unanswered so that this character, on and off the field, felt real. I told a story about when I started GQ. We were in a big ideas meeting, and I had never heard of Bruce Springsteen. We’re there, and somebody had to explain him to me, but once he was explained to me, I was like, “Oh, I get it.” I didn’t doubt that he was real, and he didn’t erase Prince for me or contend with Michael Jacksonin the pantheon of the greats. So that was really like the job.

Then, as a musician and entertainer, it’s like any other character. I wouldn’t finish the script unless I could answer what he would eat for breakfast, how he would eat it, and who would serve it to him. His favorite hotel to stay in and the things he’d be snobby and petulant about … you know what I mean?

That type of character creation is super, super fun to me. At the end of the day, I would say this: If the thing that’s in my head is the thing that we end up shooting, I’d be so disappointed. Everybody was kind of like, “What do you mean?” I’ve already entertained myself with the thing in my head, and I want to be entertained by something better than that and more entertaining and vivid than that.

There are so many moments where John did things — some really big, some really subtle. I understand that he’s an actor in an artist’s dream, but in my wildest dreams, I never pictured that. I think it’s such a great collaboration. It’s probably my favorite part of the occupation is the collaboration. I’m proud. I watch the scene where John performs all the time. I’ll just get a hit of that midday, pull it up on my phone, and watch it real quick.

I think you said a spoonful of honey with your medicine while introducing the film.

Green: Yeah. Way more than a spoonful. I over-indexed it.

John, you’ve worked with quite a few filmmakers on their feature directorial debuts. I read in the notes that it’s something you enjoy. I could see some actors loving that challenge and others running away from it. What is it about working with a first-time director that excites you as an actor?

Malkovich: Their passion about a particular project. The fact that you’re creating something together with someone who’s never been under that kind of pressure, duress, stress, strain, physical and mental labor, up to and exceeding anguish at times. You can only do it once, and I never had a bad experience with a first-time director. The films have come in all kinds of success levels, et cetera. I love that experience, and it’s most helpful to me because it keeps you young by working with young people. I do it a lot as a director, working with young actors and actresses. I love it.

This was no exception. Mark Anthony, having 19 days to shoot — in movies, it’s really never enough time, never enough money, never enough of whatever — has a very calm presence. A very collected presence moves ahead and doesn’t give his angst freely. He keeps it for himself, and unfortunately, that’s what a leader has to do. I think it’s just like that.

Mark Anthony was exemplary in that, and oddly enough, I’m never fearful of that at all. I see it more as a good thing. I’ve made some not-good films with great directors, experienced directors, award-winning directors, and people who remain talented. But as a first-time director, it’s quite special to engage in that world.

A24’s Opus is now in theaters.